On Thursday morning, Tova O'Brien and Duncan Garner faced off once again on the Debate Club segment.
How it works is a subject is chosen, O'Brien and Garner are given a side to debate, and the winner is declared at the end.
The moot for Thursday was: 'It's ok for politicians to lie'.
O'Brien was tasked to argue that it is ok, while Duncan Garner was tasked to argue that it isn't.
O'Brien began by saying that "lying can be rationalised".
"Sometimes in politics, lying is actually in the public interest," O'Brien said.
"You may think that former US President Richard Nixon isn't a good example to bring up… But there's actually a lesser-known Pinocchio-Nixon-nose-grow from back in 1973.
"Inflation was spiralling out of control, he was about to freeze wages and prices and a reporter asked if that was the plan the night before, and he answered no.
"Had he said yes, all the supermarkets and everybody else would have gone on a price hike rampage and inflation would have completely blown up, crippling households. He had to lie for the greater good and the public and commentary backed him for it.
"When there are good intentions or public interest rather than self-interest [are at the heart], just lies are accepted."
However, Garner argued that lying is "never okay".
"Yes, we've come to expect that they [politicians] will lie to us and spin like a top but that doesn't make it okay," Garner said.
"Lately, Chris Hipkins has been rather loose or questionable or downright almost unbelievable when defending old mate Steve Maharey.
"It takes me back to my original, personally held view from 2004 when I said a politician under pressure, backed into the corner, will take a default position to always lie. Nothing I've seen over 20 years since changes my view.
"It's never okay for them to lie. Take some pride in yourself and see your standards a bit higher."
Listen to the full Debate Club between Duncan Garner and Tova above.
Disclaimer: This Debate is for entertainment purposes only and is not necessarily a reflection of Garner and O'Brien's personal opinions or beliefs.
You can also download the full interview on the Tova podcast, and listen on the go.
